ezekiel's chariot - 張敦楷 ([info]pjammer) wrote,
@ 2001-07-12 08:06:00
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Current music:Steve Winwood - Valerie (Not the Same Boy I Used to Be)

Thought of the Day
A family in the U.S. Midwest loses their home and most valuable posessions.

Excerpt:

Fortunately, the damages were repairable. Armed with good insurance coverage, the Burleigh's were able to rebuild their home. But most importantly, the Burleigh's still had each other and a gracious God to thank for it.

"My most precious possessions came out of the pile of rubble holding my hands, and that's all that counted, the things God made that couldn't be replaced. He's there. The hand of God answering a small cry in the dark was stronger than the strongest storm known to man."



Thought of the Day: If a Christian buys home insurance against "Acts of God," wouldn't that be considered blasphemy?

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[info]madbard
2001-07-12 08:13 am UTC (link)
Moreover, why do they assume God didn't wreck their home in the first place? I would have been shaking my fist heavenward and shouting, "Missed me, You bastard!"

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[info]sirdiesel
2001-07-12 08:46 am UTC (link)
Hell, I do that when it rains. I take things very personally.

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[info]jesterstear
2001-07-12 08:18 am UTC (link)
>>If a Christian buys home insurance against "Acts of God," wouldn't that be considered blasphemy?

Another "thankfully I didn't have a mouthfull of pop when I read this" quote.

Sorta like Carlin pointing out that allll the athletes thank god when they win, but never blame him when they lose.

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[info]chandos
2001-07-12 08:29 am UTC (link)
I'm interested in hearing what people have to say about your thought of the day.

I just asked my boss and he said that 'Acts of God' is a human definition.. so no.

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[info]pjammer
2001-07-13 02:08 am UTC (link)
If all "Acts of God" are just human definitions, then what is the point of religion at all? By that logic Noah could have just lucked out and let him cross the Red Sea ...

:\

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Noah
[info]kiprinoz
2001-07-13 03:12 am UTC (link)
Noah never crossed the Red Sea. Y'mean Moses.

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Re:
[info]chandos
2001-07-13 04:00 am UTC (link)
Acts of God aren't defined or spoke of in the bible are they? I think that was his point. It wasn't written in His book.

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[info]pjammer
2001-07-13 07:29 am UTC (link)
Suggesting that God hasn't done anything since the bible was published?

Noah, Moses - Aaargh! (smacks self in head)

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Re:
[info]chandos
2001-07-13 07:41 am UTC (link)
I'm not saying he hasn't done anything since the bible, but it is humans who defined 'Act of God' as "A manifestation especially of a violent or destructive natural force, such as a lightning strike or earthquake, that is beyond human power to cause, prevent, or control." God does more then negative things. This definition implies God only does things that are violent and destructive. I don't believe that to be true.

If a tornado or hurricane is an act of God then isn't a beautiful sunny day? Isn't a rainbow? God does do wonderful things.

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[info]ttyp0
2001-07-13 09:12 am UTC (link)
A beautiful sunny day is the act of nuclear fusion and gravitational rotation, in combination with favourable acts of barometric pressure and the water cycle.

A rainbow is an act of refraction.

A tornado is an act of barometric pressure, a thermal engine, and other atmospheric conditions.

An earthquake is an act of tectonic pressure and/or geological stresses.

I think the point isn't whether or not God does things so much as the fact that we tend to blame the things that upset us on God, then turn around and say that all things, all conditions, are his will. Therefore, getting insurance against these acts would seem hypocritical, to be serious about it. If all fates and eventualities, if all conditions and creations, are done by divine will, then to insure against them is to attempt to thwart God.

I personally find it hard to believe in any deity so petty as to personally scatter tornadoes and earthquakes around. If there were to be deity, I think if anything it would set certain precedents in motion, and allow them to operate on their own. To do otherwise would be horribly insecure-- the idea that any divine creation would need the constant meddling of a higher being assumes mind-boggling limitations on that deity.

Why even bother creating a thing if you're going to meddle with it? What's the point of it if you don't let it operate on its own? A deity that can create miracles and disasters could do so with or without such an elaborate set. We could regress to the Greek idea, and set him up as a bored old man playing with a dollhouse, wreaking havoc and then rewarding the survivors. Personally I think humanity should be beyond such a victim's-eye view of things.

I think if you're going to believe in a god who meddles, it would be more flattering to such a god to assume he meddles through the existing conditions of that creation. Give him the credit for forethought and solid design that leave all the raw materials for miracles in place. If he is omniscient, after all, then he knew from the outset what your particular needs would be at any given moment, and set things into motion in such a way as to be ready for that moment. Right? I'd say, faith is knowing that the resources for you to overcome it yourself are within your reach. I'd say to mainstream religion: don't limit him to needing to apply patches and quick-fixes, paint each sunset personally, blow each rainbow across the sky, not to mention personally smashing houses with his pet tornados.

Believe me, the stories that come out of survivorship, the moments that are only allowed us by dire situations and sudden shake-ups, are to me far more miraculous than a bunch of raindrops catching a pretty glow. And the reward for having a little foresight to protect your family is a lot more well-deserved and precious than mannah falling from heaven because you didn't have the good sense to ration your supplies, and took mainly perishables on a trip ACROSS THE DESERT. (The manna thing happened, according to the story, VERY early on in the trip.) I'd rather believe in a God who rewarded someone who spent the money on insurance rather than on beer, a new car, or feel-good religious knicknacks. If God would care about things like that at all. Still seems petty to sweat the infinitesimal stuff.

Without pain there can be no joy, and without villains there can be no heroes. Without adversity there can be no triumph. Without defeat, no victory. Begrudging the credit for one going to your deity, and wanting the credit for it all at the same time, would be small. But pretending each is a personal act of a deity with nothing better to do also seems pretty small.

Just my thoughts on it...

And here I was just going to add some snarky comment about the acts of god not being nearly as bad as the acts that OPEN for him ;)

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Benevolence
[info]pjammer
2001-07-13 09:17 am UTC (link)
The point is that Christians, by and large, make the claim that God 'looks out for his people' and loves his children, blah blah. While you're enjoying your beautiful sunny day/rainbow, he's slaughtering his children elsewhere with floods and hurricanes. This is my fundemental issue with christian faith - everything good gets credited to GOd, everything bad is a 'result of man's rebellion and sinful nature.'

Christians are making a strong claim - that a benevolent diety watches over humanity and loves them and seeks to save them from their own sins. Which is fine, provided it can be proved in some coherent fashion. From that perspective, "hey, I saw a rainbow last week," doesn't cut it. The destruction and suffering caused by weather is of significant importance because it's something that Christians can't dodge and pin on human "sinful nature."

But that's just me.

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[info]datawais
2001-07-12 08:30 am UTC (link)
I don't know if it's blasphemy or not, but... there was a fella in England who proclaimed that God was his auto insurer.

Wonder why he lost the case when he was brought to court to pay damages for an accident he was in. Hrm.

I work for a government agency that bails out insurance companies that go under. That story of the man who claimed God as insurance made me wonder-- What do we do if God as an insurer goes under? Who's got his back?

So philisophical...

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[info]mindme
2001-07-12 09:04 am UTC (link)
For a long time, churches refused to install them new fangled lightening rods on top of their steeples. They viewed it as an act of blasphemy. Unfortunately, church steeples were frequently the tallest structures in a town and the frequent target of lightening strikes. Eventually, people came to understand the principles of static electricity and no longer viewed it quite as a greater evidence of God's hand.

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[info]rickc
2001-07-12 09:09 am UTC (link)
Nope. Buy insurance is just plain good bidness.

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[info]rafuzo
2001-07-12 09:10 am UTC (link)
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

I can't believe I never thought of that.

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[info]verucagonff
2001-07-12 09:32 am UTC (link)
I think any sort of support of the insurance industry is a sin. We're all going to hell.

By the way, I choked on my lunch laughing at that.

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[info]anoisblue
2001-07-12 11:01 am UTC (link)
How do you think of these nifty things???

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Not Neddy
[info]cheekylilmonkey
2001-07-12 12:08 pm UTC (link)
Ned Flanders didn't believe in insurance....it was gambling. Look at where it got him....the town rebuilt his home and he ended up at Calmwood. hahahahaha

Time to watch The Simpsons!

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Re: Not Neddy
[info]phanatic
2001-07-13 07:41 am UTC (link)
"God Welcomes His Victims"

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[info]ttyp0
2001-07-12 02:45 pm UTC (link)
A question I've often pondered...

Unpopular Acts of God:
  • Ventriloquism
  • Juggling cherubs
  • "Who's on First?" (ripped off!)
  • That standup routine he did in the Catskills. Phew-wee!

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[info]hjcanning
2001-07-13 12:47 am UTC (link)
maybe it would be considered blasphemy, but i think god would probably approve of their good planning. i mean, without good planning back in ancient rome, the church never would have survived to become the multi-million dollar power-wielding monstrosity that it is today. so i think even if it's blasphemy, god'll turn the other cheek.

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[info]nandan
2001-07-15 06:00 pm UTC (link)
I once went white water rafting with a bunch of born-again Christians. On the way home, the bus broke down and they all had a prayer meeting to ask God to fix the bus. Meanwhile, I called my mom to come pick me up. I didn't like the odds.

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Hmmmm ...
[info]pjammer
2001-07-15 09:59 pm UTC (link)
... so who came through first: God or mom? :)

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God is a woman
[info]nandan
2001-07-16 08:43 am UTC (link)
Oh, Mom did of course. I always knew the All-Powerful Creator was a woman.

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[info]nder
2001-09-02 01:18 am UTC (link)
I don't normally comment on really old posts, but you have GOT to be kidding.

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Re:
[info]nandan
2001-09-08 11:16 am UTC (link)
Nope. Swear to you know who.

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[info]paozel
2001-07-17 06:44 am UTC (link)
My thinking is that if there is a God, he'd have to be ignorant, unbalanced, and insane. He would have had no parents, zero education, no role models, no friends, and he would be totally spoiled from too much power and too little responsibility(after all, the cosmos don't absolutely HAVE to be orderly).

These kind of petty acts of cruelty and violence are only to be expected from God. I think though that we need to understand God's pain and try to be constructive in our criticism of him. Otherwise, he will see no reason to change his self-destructive path.

I wonder if Heaven is actually troubled with drugs and promiscuity...(referring to scripture on Nephilim and Jesus)

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Hmmm ...
[info]pjammer
2001-07-18 11:35 am UTC (link)
The Onion said it best: God Diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder.

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interesting analysis!(no text)
[info]paozel
2001-07-18 05:59 pm UTC (link)
nt

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[info]wraith843
2001-07-18 03:47 pm UTC (link)
God works in mysterious ways.
Translation: God does whatever he wants. You try telling the Supreme Being to pay for the damage to your house after a tornado rips it from the ground. Lightning anyone?

And here's a thought of the day for you Pjammer:

Do you think when Joseph found out Mary was pregnant the first thing he said was, "Jesus!"

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